World Arena Valorous Season Infographic [21]
Hello, Heirs.
This is Epic Seven.
Following our previous announcement on the Indomitable Season's infographic, we would like to present the Valorous Season's infographics. First and foremost, we would like to express our gratitude to all our Heirs for their continued support and enjoyment of World Arena.
This season became a season where meta changes occurred around the mid-season, with the meta Heroes and Heroes who have clear counter abilities against them being active.
Heroes like Lone Crescent Bellona, who can always land critical hits on successful attacks, and Inferno Khawazu who can nullify the opponent's critical resistance through detonation, have come into the spotlight with the emergence of Navy Commander Landy. She boosts the critical resistance of herself and her allies to enhance team composition stability and unleash powerful AoE attacks. Furthermore, Heroes like Last Rider Krau, who has exceptional abilities to respond to AoE attacks and can also unleash powerful AoE attacks himself, and Lionheart Cermia, who specializes in countering enemies' counterattacks and additional attacks, have become even more popular.
In addition, we witnessed intense battles between new and existing Heroes. For example, Ocean Breeze Luluca, who recently joined the meta, challenged Conqueror Lilias using her outstanding ability to counter non-attack skills. Similarly, Lethe neutralized bruiser Heroes with high Defense by inflicting fixed damage.
Now let's examine the changes in the pre-ban, first pick, and pick trends based on the numbers.
■ Pre-Ban The pre-ban rate here refers to the percentage of matches in which the Hero was pre-banned among all matches. For example, if a Hero’s pre-ban rate is 50%, it means the Hero had been pre-banned for half of all the matches counted.
■ First Pick The term 'First Pick' here refers to the Hero selected by the player assigned the First Pick role, which means that only one Hero is evaluated per match. For example, a Hero that has a 30% weighted distribution in the image below means that 30% of players assigned the First Pick role drafted the Hero in their first slot. From the following data, you can also confirm the post-pick ban rate and win rate of the Heroes.
■ Pick The term 'Pick' here refers to the Heroes selected by the two players for a match and includes their First Picks. If the pick rate is 50%, it means the Hero has been drafted by either player for half of all the matches. |
1. Hero Pick Rate
1) Pre-Ban
Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | ||
Hero | Pre-Ban | Hero | Pre-Ban |
Lua | 63.9% | Lua | 62.2% |
Angel of Light Angelica | 47.4% | Conqueror Lilias | 40.9% |
Navy Captain Landy | 40.0% | Angel of Light Angelica | 37.9% |
Conqueror Lilias | 32.8% | Amid | 32.6% |
Zio | 29.5% | Belian | 32.2% |
Last Rider Krau | 19.8% | Zio | 27.1% |
Belian | 18.5% | Savior Adin | 13.1% |
ae-KARINA | 11.7% | ae-KARINA | 12.1% |
Savior Adin | 10.0% | Politis | 11.5% |
Briar Witch Iseria | 8.0% | Ran | 10.0% |
Ran | 7.0% | Specter Tenebria | 9.4% |
Specter Tenebria | 6.9% | Briar Witch Iseria | 8.6% |
Lionheart Cermia | 6.0% | Unbound Knight Arowell | 8.2% |
Amid | 5.5% | Faithless Lidica | 7.6% |
Politis | 4.7% | Mediator Kawerik | 6.7% |
Unbound Knight Arowell | 4.5% | Desert Jewel Basar | 6.4% |
Ocean Breeze Luluca | 4.2% | Edward Elric | 5.5% |
Mediator Kawerik | 4.2% | Last Rider Krau | 4.9% |
Edward Elric | 3.5% | Command Model Laika | 2.4% |
Roana | 2.9% | Apocalypse Ravi | 2.2% |
There were changes in the rankings among the Heroes in the 2nd to 5th place during the Valorous Season, with Lua maintaining her position as the top pre-ban Hero. Conqueror Lilias, who ranked second in the previous Indomitable season, has dropped to fourth place, and Belian has also experienced a decline in her pre-ban rate this season, pushing her outside of the top five. The Hero that experienced the largest decrease was Amid, showing a decrease of over 27%.
On the other hand, the pre-ban rates for Angel of Light, Angelica, and Last Rider Krau have greatly increased. Last Rider Krau, in particular, showcased his abilities in the previous season, but his ranking has further improved this season. As the focus on pursuing a stable team composition has increased, a more favorable environment has been created for him, leading to an increase in pre-ban rates.
During the previous pre-season, the combination of Jack O' and Zio, with balance adjustments, became popular in the early stages of the season, leading to a temporary increase in Jack O's pre-ban rate at that time.
The pre-ban rate of Heroes mainly used in fast-paced compositions, including Jack-O, has generally decreased after the mid-season with the introduction of Navy Captain Landy. Pre-ban rate of Ran and Amid reached approximately 10% at the beginning of the season, but later, Ran dropped to 6%, while Amid dropped to 3.3%.
During the middle of the season, the pick rate of Navy Captain Landy, who quickly emerged as a central figure in the metagame after her introduction, along with Lionheart Cermia, notably increased as the season progressed. This is likely because there have been many attempts to progress the draft in the desired direction after excluding the influential Navy Captain Landy. Conversely, if players wanted to use Navy Captain Landy or Conqueror Lilias, Lionheart Cermia would have been a threat, leading to pre-banning her.
The addition of counter Heroes, such as Ocean Breeze Luluca, led to a decline in the pre-ban rate for Conqueror Lilias as the season advanced.
2) First Pick
Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | ||||||
Hero | First Pick | Ban | Win Rate | Hero | First Pick | Ban | Win Rate |
Conqueror Lilias | 25.5% | 14.9% | 51.5% | Conqueror Lilias | 30.0% | 15.9% | 52.5% |
Navy Captain Landy | 17.8% | 12.3% | 52.3% | Unbound Knight Arowell | 8.7% | 12.4% | 51.9% |
Last Rider Krau | 10.4% | 8.2% | 49.9% | Mediator Kawerik | 8.5% | 11.3% | 50.8% |
Unbound Knight Arowell | 8.9% | 11.9% | 53.2% | Specter Tenebria | 6.5% | 12.8% | 49.8% |
Zio | 6.6% | 22.2% | 47.9% | Amid | 5.9% | 25.9% | 49.5% |
Lua | 5.1% | 23.9% | 51.2% | Lua | 5.0% | 25.8% | 51.2% |
Angel of Light Angelica | 4.3% | 20.6% | 50.2% | Angel of Light Angelica | 4.8% | 23.2% | 49.5% |
Savior Adin | 4.1% | 13.1% | 51.2% | Zio | 4.4% | 23.2% | 47.8% |
Mediator Kawerik | 4.0% | 10.1% | 51.0% | Apocalypse Ravi | 4.4% | 8.4% | 52.4% |
Specter Tenebria | 3.8% | 14.1% | 49.3% | Savior Adin | 3.5% | 12.3% | 51.3% |
Apocalypse Ravi | 1.4% | 9.3% | 50.7% | ae-KARINA | 2.0% | 13.0% | 52.7% |
Ran | 1.2% | 25.7% | 48.6% | Last Rider Krau | 1.9% | 11.3% | 50.4% |
ae-KARINA | 1.0% | 15.2% | 53.4% | Ran | 1.8% | 26.6% | 49.3% |
Amid | 0.9% | 24.6% | 50.3% | Desert Jewel Basar | 1.5% | 20.6% | 47.5% |
Ocean Breeze Luluca | 0.6% | 19.1% | 46.9% | Destina | 1.4% | 15.0% | 51.1% |
Peira | 0.5% | 23.3% | 48.3% | Ambitious Tywin | 1.1% | 11.4% | 52.4% |
Politis | 0.4% | 22.2% | 50.2% | Politis | 1.0% | 19.0% | 50.8% |
Desert Jewel Basar | 0.4% | 19.6% | 47.9% | Command Model Laika | 0.9% | 21.2% | 49.1% |
Cidd | 0.3% | 23.3% | 50.0% | Faithless Lidica | 0.6% | 26.6% | 48.2% |
Destina | 0.3% | 16.0% | 51.6% | Crimson Armin | 0.6% | 16.1% | 52.3% |
Conqueror Lilias remained the top pick, as in the previous season, but her win rate has slightly decreased compared to the previous season due to the influence of the emergence of Ocean Breeze Luluca and the increased strength of Lionheart Cermia through balance adjustments.
Navy Captain Landy, who is newly introduced this season, has proven herself to be resilient against fast-paced critical strike-based compositions. Her passive effect made her a valuable choice for players looking for stable draft choices to navigate the game. As a result, she was ranked second in first pick.
The drafting trend of starting with Amid, Apocalypse Ravi, and Specter Tenebria has generally decreased compared to previous seasons. This is because Navy Captain Landy has taken center stage in the meta, making it more difficult for fast-paced compositions to deploy these Heroes as early picks.
During the early stages of the season, the Last Rider Krau consistently maintained the second-ranked position in the first-pick rate. However, starting from the mid-season, his first-pick rate gradually declined as he shared the first-pick position with Navy Captain Landy. Nevertheless, he consistently maintained a high first-pick rate as a knight class alongside Unbound Knight Arowell.
In the case of Zio, he was frequently chosen as the first-pick Hero in the early stages of the season due to his synergy with Jack-O'. However, as the season progressed, his first-pick rate gradually decreased. Since Navy Captain Landy's appearance, Savior Adin has also experienced a continuous decline in the first-pick rate.
3) Pick
Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | ||||||
Hero | Pick | Ban | Win Rate | Hero | Pick | Ban | Win Rate |
Conqueror Lilias | 48.3% | 14.9% | 51.5% | Specter Tenebria | 46.6% | 12.8% | 49.8% |
Last Rider Krau | 43.9% | 8.2% | 49.9% | Conqueror Lilias | 45.6% | 15.9% | 52.5% |
Mediator Kawerik | 43.5% | 10.1% | 51.0% | Apocalypse Ravi | 44.4% | 8.4% | 52.4% |
Unbound Knight Arowell | 42.3% | 11.9% | 53.2% | Mediator Kawerik | 41.9% | 11.3% | 50.8% |
Savior Adin | 40.2% | 13.1% | 51.2% | Savior Adin | 39.5% | 12.3% | 51.3% |
Specter Tenebria | 39.6% | 14.1% | 49.3% | Unbound Knight Arowell | 36.9% | 12.4% | 51.9% |
Lionheart Cermia | 37.5% | 16.9% | 51.0% | ae-KARINA | 33.5% | 13.0% | 52.7% |
Apocalypse Ravi | 34.3% | 9.3% | 50.7% | Zio | 29.1% | 23.2% | 47.8% |
Navy Captain Landy | 32.1% | 12.3% | 52.3% | Angel of Light Angelica | 27.6% | 23.2% | 49.5% |
Zio | 28.9% | 22.2% | 47.9% | Briar Witch Iseria | 24.1% | 27.9% | 48.8% |
ae-KARINA | 27.4% | 15.2% | 53.4% | Politis | 24.0% | 19.0% | 50.8% |
Ocean Breeze Luluca | 27.0% | 19.1% | 46.9% | Edward Elric | 23.8% | 26.5% | 49.6% |
Angel of Light Angelica | 25.0% | 20.6% | 50.2% | Amid | 22.8% | 25.9% | 49.5% |
Briar Witch Iseria | 20.8% | 28.9% | 49.1% | Ran | 20.2% | 26.6% | 49.3% |
Ran | 17.8% | 25.7% | 48.6% | Destina | 19.2% | 15.0% | 51.1% |
Zahhak | 16.5% | 37.3% | 49.1% | Last Rider Krau | 19.2% | 11.3% | 50.4% |
Edward Elric | 16.5% | 30.3% | 50.0% | Landy | 19.0% | 18.6% | 47.6% |
Peira | 15.9% | 23.3% | 48.3% | Zahhak | 18.8% | 31.8% | 48.3% |
Lethe | 15.0% | 23.9% | 47.1% | Belian | 18.3% | 22.1% | 54.0% |
Lua | 13.7% | 23.9% | 51.2% | Desert Jewel Basar | 17.3% | 20.6% | 47.5% |
Specter Tenebria has dropped to 6th place this season after consistently maintaining a high pick rate in the previous seasons. She was the 2nd most-picked Hero during the Triumph Season and the most-picked Hero during the Indomitable Season.
With the growing influence of Navy Captain Landy, Heroes like Last Rider Krau and Lionheart Cermia, who can counter her, have become popular choices in the meta. The decrease in the pick rate for Specter Tenebria is believed to be due to the shift in the meta, where Heroes with powerful AoE attacks have become more prevalent.
Last Rider Krau, with his passive that grants buffs upon being hit by an AoE attack, proves to be effective against Navy Captain Landy. Moreover, his high versatility as a Knight Hero allows him to protect Navy Captain Landy, resulting in him achieving the second-highest pick rate. In addition, Lionheart Cermia garnered attention for her remarkable effectiveness against Navy Captain Landy and Conqueror Lilias, thanks to the balance adjustments made in the middle of the season. As a result, her pick rate increased by over 20% compared to the previous season.
Ocean Breeze Luluca and Lethe, the newly added Heroes, have firmly established themselves in the meta, entering the top 20 rankings.
From the mid-season onwards, we can observe a decrease in the pick rate of Specter Tenebria, who was previously the highest ranked until the early season.
On the contrary, Lionheart Cermia's pick rate increased by more than 30% compared to the early season, reaching third place in the late season. Unbound Knight Arowell, who showed a slightly weaker performance compared to Last Rider Krau, also recorded a pick rate of 45% and regained her former glory.
Major changes in the meta were observed starting from the middle of the season when Navy Captain Landy made her appearance. The pick rates of Heroes like Politis, Lua, and Belian, who were at the top of the rankings early in the season, have fallen below the top 20. Meanwhile, the pick rates of Knight Heroes and other Heroes such as Mediator Kawerik, Angel of Light Angelica, and Remnant Violet, who are frequently used in stable team compositions, have increased.
Overall, it appears that the trend is dominated by team compositions that have high durability. However, some Heroes have consistently maintained a high pick rate, such as Ran and Peira, even among the high-speed Heroes.
2. Deadline status.
As we conclude the analysis of Hero usage, we would like to share some final thoughts on the Valorous Season.
The Heirs on the Korean server showcased impressive performances this season, as they improved their rankings in both the Legend and Emperor Leagues, compared to the previous season.
The average win rate in the Legends and Emperor League has remained similar to last season.
However, the final League competition has become more intense compared to previous seasons, resulting in higher cut-off points for both Leagues.
1) Legend League
Server | Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | Difference | |||
Avg. Win Rate | No. of Players | Avg. Win Rate | No. of Players | Avg. Win Rate | No. of Players | |
Global | 60.3% | 42 | 60.5% | 50 | -0.2% | -8 |
Asia | 61.7% | 29 | 60.9% | 28 | 0.8% | 1 |
Europe | 60.3% | 3 | 59.6% | 4 | 0.7% | -1 |
Japan | 61.4% | 3 | 61.0% | 5 | 0.4% | -2 |
Korea | 59.0% | 26 | 60.0% | 15 | -1.0% | 11 |
Total | 60.4% | 103 | 60.5% | 102 | -0.1% | 1 |
Cut-off Point | Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | Difference |
3775 | 3740 | 35 | |
Avg. Match Count | 1349 | 1470 | -121 |
Avg. Win Rate | 60.4% | 60.5% | -0.14% |
2) Emperor League
Server | Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | Difference | |||
Avg. Win Rate | No. of Players | Avg. Win Rate | No. of Players | Avg. Win Rate | No. of Players | |
Global | 53.3% | 328 | 53.7% | 354 | -0.4% | -26 |
Asia | 53.1% | 246 | 52.5% | 268 | 0.6% | -22 |
Europe | 52.8% | 43 | 53.5% | 47 | -0.7% | -4 |
Japan | 53.7% | 63 | 53.0% | 56 | 0.6% | 7 |
Korea | 52.6% | 244 | 52.7% | 189 | -0.1% | 55 |
Total | 53.1% | 924 | 53.1% | 914 | 0.0% | 10 |
Cut-off Point | Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | Difference |
3537 | 3465 | 72 | |
Avg. Match Count | 1083 | 1075 | 7 |
Avg. Win Rate | 53.1% | 53.1% | 0.0% |
3) League Info
The average number of matches in the Legend League has decreased when compared to previous seasons.
The decline in the number of ranked matches played is believed to have been influenced by the participation of high-ranked Heirs in the E7WC 2023 Preliminaries throughout the season. The average win rates for the first-pick player and the second-pick player in the Champion League and above were calculated to be 50.7% and 49.3%, respectively, showing a slight difference.
League | Valorous Season | Indomitable Season | Difference | |||
Avg. Match Count | Avg. Win Rate | Avg. Match Count | Avg. Win Rate | Avg. Match Count | Avg. Win Rate | |
Bronze | 4.9 | 6.0% | 5.1 | 6.2% | -0.2 | -0.2% |
Silver | 16.5 | 49.8% | 16.6 | 50.3% | -0.1 | -0.5% |
Gold | 50.3 | 52.7% | 53.6 | 53.2% | -3.3 | -0.5% |
Master | 50.8 | 60.7% | 51.8 | 60.6% | -1.0 | 0.0% |
Challenger | 145.9 | 55.1% | 160.3 | 54.4% | -14.5 | 0.7% |
Champion | 322.9 | 54.6% | 320.8 | 54.7% | 2.1 | -0.1% |
Emperor | 1082.8 | 53.1% | 1075.4 | 53.1% | 7.4 | 0.0% |
Legend | 1349.1 | 60.4% | 1469.7 | 60.5% | -120.6 | -0.1% |
3. Valorous Season – Overall Analysis
If the key point in the previous Indomitable season was a flexible drafting strategy to contend with fast-paced Heroes, then in this Valorous season it is a stable drafting strategy that effectively restricts the opponent's core Heroes has emerged as a major tactic. However, in order to deploy stable team compositions and effectively counter the opponent's picks, it was necessary to have a diverse range of Heroes equipped with suitable Equipment. As a result, the difficulty of this season may have been perceived differently among the players, depending on the Heroes they were able to utilize.
Therefore, we will continue to monitor to enable our Heirs to deploy their beloved Heroes in specific roles. We will also make efforts to improve in various ways and create an environment where they can devise strategies according to their style, even if the meta changes.
For instance, there are regular balance adjustments and the introduction of new Exclusive Equipment, along with improvements to the Battle Frenzy effect. We are preparing content to unleash the potential of Heroes who have received much love in the past but are currently underutilized, giving them an opportunity for a comeback. We are dedicated to making this content available to you before the year comes to a close. The Match History Beta site, introduced last September, is another service that is part of the same initiative. We aim for it to assist you in conveniently understanding the real-time meta status, and various drafting styles, and in building your gameplay expertise.
Regarding the additional improvement, we introduced a blind policy that restricts the display of the opponent's information during matchmaking to prevent easy exposure of one's drafting strategy. Furthermore, we are also preparing to improve the system to prevent abuse, such as reducing instances where the same opponent is continuously matched. We will continue to make efforts to provide a pleasant gaming environment as much as possible.
We extend our gratitude to all the Heirs who have played the game with enthusiasm and keen interest this season, and we wish you a successful conclusion to the remainder of the year.
The Epic Seven team will always strive to provide the best gaming experience possible for our Heirs.
Thank you.
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The community asks for a nerf so that a few weeks later they can ask for the buff to be the same as before
Y yo me pregunto porque si tiene toda esta info a la mano no se preocupan en nerfear al menos al top 3 o top 5 de personajes para que no se muera su juego en vez de estar sacando más pjs rotos
please SG, before nerfing or doing anything, just remember that this is the minority people that are whiny and complaining and that's not the opinion of the entire community
Do the nerfs and apologize for taking so long.
tbh, i think the negative perception of this data is kinda dangerous, asking for all 5 of the top preban heroes to be nerfed is a bit much and is very ignorant. the meta shifts in lower ranks quicker than it does in high ranks, where you still see conq lilias being fped every game shes not banned, but in anything below champ, i didnt see her at all hardly. shes a way riskier pick now, and when the next season starts i expect to see her get phased out a little more and become a 3rd pick, similar to peira. you cant just braindead pick her anymore.
The only two characters that i still see as a problem for the game is zio and ml landy, zio has zero counterplay because you need to draft 5 heroes in accordance to him (gpurg, fat cat, stene, 2 rangers on guiding light) to affectively deal with him. and then the opponent can just play ml roana anyway and your dead. ml landy is another character in which you have to draft 5 units to deal with her, but shes worse because even 5 units isnt enough
to deal with her. i wont argue about lua, i personally dont think shes as strong as people think, but then again, i hardly ever play against her and have been using her myself a lot because shes a fairly safe first pick. aola has too much varience in build and i would love to see smilegate look at how to force her into one specific build, like they did aravi. contrev ersial take, but blocking her from being above 200 speed at the start of battle and giving her a better kit for anti cleave (bigger cr pushes, 2 debuff cleanse) would be my suggestion, but i know the community will think that thats an awful idea.
people interpreting characters having high ban rates as broken when in other games with similar systems, there is always a couple characters with similar ban rates (excluding lua because this community is so stubborn that they dont wanna fight her). then those characters get one nerf and dont see play until they are shadow buffed 6 times into a similar state.
PropaPanda6But, thats just talking from a numbers perspective. Balance should revolve around what players find fun to play against, which is why i would like to see ml landy get gutted personally. that would include lua too. This community will just complain about anything at the top no matter what, especially if they are easier to build (hwa, aola), so balance is impossible when people will just cry about it no matter if even godmother was at the top. You can see that with the same people complaining about rift content that we got recently. as a final note, thankyou smilegate for you communication to us, and trying your best to make everyone happy, i speak on behalf of the community when i say, whilst we complain, we do appreciate you.
PropaPanda6Balance is impossible. It's an idealistic thing. But by never nerfing anything SG isn't even trying to pursue the ideal. Instead of characterizing the community as in the wrong, consider that maybe SG's given players plenty to complain about. Take Aol and Lua for example. The community asked for nerfs to those units before they'd even been released and SG's attempts at shadow nerfing them have all failed. The community sentiment on at least those 2 units is perfectly justified. If it's true that aol is essential as an anti cleave piece then that might suggest cleave as a whole needs to be reevaluated too.
As for rift, it's nonsense. Instead of making decent content, SG designed it just to coerce people into summoning Kane. It's impossible to call rift good content with a straight face while 15% exists if you want anyone to take you seriously.
CaulkOfOdinits true, balance is impossible, because even if it was balanced, the game would be stale because there would be no variance. remember two weeks ago when people on this website, reddit, twitter and youtube were all begging smilegate to nerf nahkwol. the players aren't always right. the same way i still believe the players aren't right about either of them 2 units. aola needs to be adjusted, not nerfed. the adjustments i suggested would remove a build that people abuse that does need to be nerfed. but when have you played against a 200 speed aola and gone "thats broken, remove it from the game". its the 255+ speed one that feels horrible to fight because there is no counterplay, u try to nuke with lpk/jacko ect and she has proof of valor, you try prepare for her and play slower, shes either slower or on book. shes too versatile and her playstyles differ too much without being able to tell which one is which whilst drafting. as for lua, people just cant get their head around her because
as for sg "forcing you to summon kane"...
PropaPanda6
Great. So when are you nerfing the top 5 preban units?
You know, the 5 units that the entire community has complained about and clearly don't want to play with or against since their releases?
So when are you going to nerf Aola? Who has a ML 6 kit? Being base 4 star hero she should be this oppressive! You stupid balance team! He makes the game so not fun. No matter how many counters you make for her, she'll always be there! You need at least 3 counters every match against her and it ***** up your whole draft. Plus, there are like 69 builds you can do to her. Being slow, tanky, annoying, fast, high eff, it even ***** up your ml kawerik's turn order!! Fck fck fck. This game sucks. This needs to be address like right now! Many units can't be played because of her!!!
When a few characters are being banned the most, there's your sign of power balance issues with characters. You either need counter characters or counter artifacts. There should be characters that can steal lilias permanent buff and basically flip the match. This will make people more hesitant to use characters like her.
yes SG, its right there, the nerf target is there
Nerf Conqueror Lilias too.
This info graph basically means nothing changed. Meta still meta just a few new ones added. Buffs can only do so much. Nerfs will so needed to be added. Some of these heroes have been meta for far too long. For years these heroes have taken the top spot and are well due for a nerf to let other heroes be viable
Wait who the hell is Inferno Kawerik
Mediator Khawazu's rival.
This info graph basically means nothing changed. Meta still meta just a few new ones added. Buffs can only do so much. Nerfs will so needed to be added. Some of these heroes have been meta for far too long. For years these heroes have taken the top spot and are well due for a nerf to let other heroes be viable
Do the nerfs and apologize for taking so long.