Nine [Fighting Spirit] card - bugged tenacity damage. [10]
It seems that Nine [Fighting Spirit] card has bugged interaction with [Hew] Card - tenacity damage done by [Hew] is much less than it should be when it is activated by [Fighting Spirit].
Picture (containing 4 ingame screenshots) attached (as first reply in this thread because i can't work this forum out):
- first (top left) shows prediction of damage and tenacity damage for [Hew]
- second (top right) shows effect after using [Hew]
- third (bottom left) shows prediction for [Fighting Spirit]
- fourth (bottom right) shows effect after using [Fighting Spirit]
It is clear that [Hew] deals about 3.0 tenacity damage while [Fighting Spirit] triggering [Hew] deals about 0.5 tenacity damage.
From other tests it is always about 6 times less tenacity damage than it should be - no matter if creature is weak vs order or not.
I used some of the Protos rerols on last action made to show this and how the tenacity differs for exact same output.
I do not have Ego 01 for Nine - so mayby this bug is not present if target may be selected with [Fighting Spirit]. If someone has it - please check it and post - this might add some info and help with bug resolving for devs.
As a side not - it is weird that [Fighting Spirit] does not show prediction at all when there is just one enemy (comparing it to Sereniels [Cobalt Light] that shows both damage and tenacity damage if there is just one enemy). But i guess this is more complicated interaction here since activation is applied.
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So reasonable conclusions:
- tenacity damage vs element weakness is 1.0 per cost of card. Cards costing 0 deal 0.5 tenacity damage
- tenacity damage vs non weaknes is 0.33 per cost of card. Have not tested any cards costing 0 in this scenario but it would make sense that they will deal 0.165 tenacity damage.
- "Activation" reduces the activated cost of card to 0 AP before activating it. This is why tenacity damage is lower and explains why Celestial cards do not activate by this combination (as shown in other thread by xXYAMIXx: https://page.onstove.com/chaoszeronightmare/en/view/12052402?boardKey=141776)
Ok so i did some testing with Nia (with Sereniel and Nine in team) - was focusing mostly on using [Mute Accent] since it gives a bit of control on what will be activated - observations:
- trigering [Homing Laser] with it results with exactly same tenacity damage as predicted - makes sense since card is worth 0 and triggers afterglow. Same things happen when it is activated.
- using [Mute Accent] when lowest cost card in hand is [Fighting Spirit] - triggers its activation too and [Hew] is activated in the end. Fun interaction. So [Mute Accent] -> [Fighting Spirit] -> [Hew]
- triggering [Slash] - basic attack of Nine vs element weakness. Prediction showed 1.0 tenacity damage, when activated it did 0.5 tenacity damage.
- trigering upgraded to cost 2 AP [Fatal Strike] vs non weakness. Prediction showed about 0.66 tenacity damage, when activated it did minimal tenacity damage, about 1/4 of what it should.
(continue with conclusions - 1k limit...)
Oh, right i forgot about them neutral cards. Good catch!
Quick update on those:
I) [Chilling Godfather] - activates bottom card from draw, hard to test
II) [Knowledge of Darkness] - draws and activates card with finale, semi-hard to test
III) [Forbidden: Engraved Malice] - potential candidate to test
IV) [One With All] - mentioned by xXYAMIXx
I am missing few cards in collection (and they show ??? in description) - might be more.
there's a new card as well in S2... it's a Finale card where you chose a card to activate if you proc Shield/atk/and healing in a turn... I'll try it as well.. will activate a Hew while having a celestial card in hand and see how it goes (not sure if the Finale status would be an issue or not)
10) Rei - [Strike of Darknes], 5th upgrade - potential candidate to test
11) Owen - [Wind Charge], 4th upgrade - activates skill card, useless for testing
12) Owen - [Wind Slash], 3rd upgrade - similar to Haru, hard to test
13) Kayron - [Black Hole], 1st upgrade - useless for testing, activates futility
bonus1) there is that accessory with "on turn start activate lead card in hand"
bonus2) partner Noel - has skill that activates retain effect
Might have missed something but it seems those are all activation effect interaction with cards. I have checked all the Ego Skills of agents and partners too.
It seems easiest way to test this will be with Nia and i will do that later today.
Extra:
A) "Celestial" trigger probably is treated as activation too
B) "Combo" trigger could be treated as activation too
I have just tested the Nines card [Counterblade] with upgrade that activates Hew at the start of the turn and it has same effect (low tenacity damage).
Here is list so far i have found of other characters having activation on their cards or epis:
1) Orlea - [Growing Creature], 4th epi - it only activates retain effect
2) Veronica - [Sir Kowalski], 4th epi - i think it buffs ballista and imidietly activates it (not sure since i barely use this epi)
3) Chizuru - [Bound at Dusk], 3rd epi or 4th epi - potential candidate to test
4) Haru - [Power Charge], 3rd epi - might be hard to test and it only activates itself
5) Sereniel - [Cobalt Light], 5th epi - useless for testing since it triggers on ravage
6) Nia - [G Chord], base and four epis - seems like best way to test
7) Nia - [Mute Accent], 3rd upgrade - easy way to test
8) Nia - [Soul Rip], 1st upgrade - useless for testing, does no dmg
9) Beryl - [Guilty Pleasure], 4th upgrade - similar to Orlea, only activates retain effect
(continue... 1k limit)
you're welcome! and yup, tenacity is linked to the cost of cards...
I haven't tried any other "Activation" mechanics too, but I as well as you reached the conclusion that it might be treated in this manner as well... if you ever tried, would be much appreciated if you shared the result!
Ah - thanks for answer!
Now when i think about it - i am not 100% sure how tenacity damage is calulated - till now i thought "more damage" = "more tenacity damage" but obviously it is not true. Gave it some more thought and conclusion is that it is directly connected to cost of the card as you mentioned (excluding other buffs like Sereniels trait, direct tenacity damage, etc.)
And if so then indeed the fighting spirit activation treats the card at 0 cost. I am guessing any other cards that use activation mechanic should work in similar manner then.
don't think it's a bug, probably that's how it's intended by the devs... using Hew through fighting spirit is considered as playing a 0 cost card... it doesn't Proc any Celestial cards as well.
kinda inconvenient in all honesty, I reported to the devs but didn't receive anything.
Not sure why i was not able to attach picture (there was option to set it as background image but it does not show anywhere) - so here are screenshots in first reply...