커뮤니티 게시판 글상세

you just refuses to understand something you want to disagree; i've agreed with what he said, when i say "its a 1 time bonus" im actually saying its something youll activate and'll keep rolling, and not that it'll disapear; yeah, youre overcomplicating when you doing so much to try and understand "what upgrades are and what this and that means, in what group this or that will be", when theyre literally what the card say, theres no need to bring or fetch for more details or variables when its that simple; card say that, card do that;

He differentiate upgrade and 1 time bonus, you keep on insisting they're the same. You said you agreed but you keep on damn lecturing me as if they're the same saying "it's... Just upgrade y'know?" And when I explain it in detail now you say I'm being overcomplicating it. This is why it's getting ridiculous to discuss.

I don't even know what you're complaining, everything's already clear for me. You said you agreed to him but you kept on lecturing me when I don't have any issue with him.

you keep saying Ive missed some point when im actually agreeing to what he said lol

@Gllty it is 1 time activation but at the end they works the way I said, I'm not complicating it lol I was just showing the examples and they have the same trait. Forget about the wording "1 time bonus", what we're trying to say is they're different. Upgrade buff & bonus buff is different.

I don't have problem with the 1 time bonus there, just put it below the upgrade part for better hierarchy.

I'm not going to debate anymore of why "2 wave" and "1 morale" isn't the same. 1 is a 1 time bonus, 1 is an upgrade buff. 1 is a 1 time active, 1 is a activate conditionally every turn (including morale, every turn you get a +20% damage but they don't stack)

Upgrades don't get reduced while "1 time bonus" naturally gets reduced somehow like by cap or usage. Upgrades can only be reduced in a certain way like -1 morale debuff from the enemy.

I've written too much already. My wording may not be the best, but I feel like you missed what me and vyan meant by "1 time bonus". 

Let's just end the discussion

bro... they just keep the card formula when spiking epiphanies... and... its really not confusing, theres not "a bunch of upgrade types", they're just... 'upgrades'... youre overthinking and overcomplicating something simple

If the card says "2 waves" then its just that, 2 waves, LITERALLY that... why do all this thinking proccess where you go "okay, theres 4 kinds of upgrades, and this one have this main part and this secondary one" like... no... its... simple

its LITERALLY what the card say, upgrades are one-time only activation that'll keep with you during the fight, yep, Vyan explanation was a good one, again, its not a '1 time bonus', its just a bonus, If you dont use your 2 waves, theyll keep there, its not like it'll expire

same goes for '+1 morale', If there were any characters with the ability to consume morale to activate some extra effect, then that '1 morale' from your upgrade would disappear, would be consumed ( as happens with your 2 waves, your X metalize, etc) 

@Gllty I think you're kinda missing the point of what I meant.

I believe there are 4 kind of upgrades (CMIIW), that is:

1. "at the start/end of turn, x"

2. "1 x"(divine eph) 

3. "+x% damage" 

4. "each time x, do y"

But the point is that they all "last every turns" either by constantly do something per turn, or the "buff" constantly stay there every turn (like 1 morale).

Here's what I meant by that "1 time bonus" as in that thing isn't really an upgrade cuz we do see those on skill cards.

Same goes with amir or narja, each of their upgrade cards do have their actual upgrade buff such amir with her "at the start of the turn, 1 materialization" and narja with her "1 predation each time a card moved to hand".

I would call the "1 materialization" "10 verocity" as simple "1 time bonus", refering to what vyan says.

I liked how vyan explained it so yeah, you could read his comment.

And based on all of that, I suggest them to put the main upgrade text above the 1 time bonus text.

bro, stop thinking "upgrade are buffs you get everyturn" theyre not, its okay to be confused, but havent i explained to you ?

Upgrade's are NOT 'everyturn bonus', the morale you've used as example only activates ONE time, upgrades are just... upgrades ? bônus you activate one time and keep there for the entire fight...

the card says "2 waves, +50% healing" and thats what it does, the waves dont disapear, you just use then, the same goes for Amir, who have some upgrades that give Metalize, and Narja with her Voracity; If It dont state you get a new stack everyturn, you dont, compare its text to Deluge for example

Uwahhh... This post helping me, last week i have same thinking 'what if i make mika deck with that wave upgrades?'

and @Vyan91 with that echo of sorrow did helped much, thank you.

I see.

I always regard an Upgrade as an extra Passive effect instead of something that occur every turn.

After all there are Upgrade that doesn't work every turn but instead conditionally triggered like Nia.

@Vyan91 would still make more sense for the original upgrade effect to be put on top either way. 

I mistook it cause when I see an "upgrade" card, what's come in my mind first is that it would add something which works every turn, which the card does have, but apparently it's only the healing part, which is located below the wave buff. And to make it clear again, it was based on the "1 morale" in a divine buff. 

You could say It's my fault for not reading it properly, but either way it would still be better if they put the actual upgrade on top as it is the main "feature" of the card. Differentiating the font color like amir's card (1 time bonus white, upgrade green) would also be nice. I know the concept of "at the start of turn" and "+x%" is different, but what I'm trying to emphasize here is to differentiate between an upgrade buff and bonus buff.

Of course, this criticism goes to every upgrade cards, not only Mika's.

But seriously though I don't know how are you confusing the effect itself to be every turn when the card didn't say so.

There's like another example of this kind of effect.

Any epiphany always follow their original card sentence structure.

Since the original card put Wave first, the epiphany always follow the same structure unless there was another 1 time bonus. Also any generic / divine epiphany always put last (include Morale, Draw, Ap, etc)

So the card sentence structure would be :

1. 1 time bonus

2. Original Upgrade effect

3. Generic/Divine Epiphany

@Gllty they should atleast put that "2 wave" below "+50% healing" so the main thing is actually at the top. It's an upgrade card, and the upgrade part is the healing, with the wave as a bonus.

@Vyan91 We had  "1 morale" which stays all day, that's why I thought so in a glance. I think I've written enough what I meant on the last comment. In the end I think they should've put that "2 wave" below "+50% healing" since that wave isn't really an upgrade, only the "+50% healing" is. The hierarchy is bad, they should change it.

Is it really that confusing ?

I'm pretty sure if the buff works every turn there will always a statement of "at the start of each turn" or "at the end of each turn"

So that Mika upgrade card is very obvious to me that it will generated 2 Wave when used and +50% heal permanently.

Morale also works the same way since it's literally permanent dmg buff unless specified "+ x Morale for 1 turn"

yep, i get you, but i think you're looking at the "wrong" benefit of the card yk ? the 2 waves are just an extra for your turn to keep rolling ( 1 from deluge at the start of turn + 2 from the upgrade = 3 waves/1AP ), wich potentially makes this card cost 0 ( If youre not playing Chizuru ), you can say: "why not make it cost 0, and remove the 2 waves then ?", cause If you have some sort of cost reduction, may It be in the form of equipment, fate, or other cards ( Narja can do that ), then you're actually +1AP, instead of just being at 0, you see ? its more like a "little extra" that you can optimize or synergize, the real card effect, the important ones in this case are both the + healing through all the fight AND the fact its an upgrade ( you wont draw this same card again, and this help you alot on longer fights, like hard bosses or the tower, where upgrades are REALLY good );

@Gllty honestly, your explanation does make sense, I do understand that.

It just that it doesn't feel like an "upgrade" when in the end that "wave" would disappear. 

Other buffs like +40% void damage, +1 morale, +50% healing, etc. does feel like one cause they're made to just stay there once they're added. Would probably fit better if they make "wave" added each turn for its upgrade card, and if 2 is too op, 1 or maybe 1/2 wave per turn could do it. 

I don't know man, I just feel like the concept of "upgrade" should be a kind of buff that stays as in always add something the whole fight (like moral will always add a 20% atk), not just 1 time kind of thing. Imo the current one fits better as a skill card more than an upgrade card (except for its +50% healing of course).

I haven't tried narja but I hope you get what I meant either way

actually, theres nothing wrong or confusing;

first case: the card says "2 wave, +50% healing"; and... It does give you 2 waves and +50% healing for for the entire duration of the fight, the thing is, your "wave" is used when you reach 3;

second case: "+40% void DMG, +1 Morale and 1resolve", and It does give you that.... 40% void DMG, 1 Morale for the entirety of the fight, and 1 resolve too; If It is the way you've sugested (give 1 morale at the start of the turn); then it would just stack 1 more everyturn;

does your 2 waves expire at the end of the turn ? no, they're there, the same goes for the +50% healing, and for the +1 morale;

"Upgrades" are buffs you get from the entirety of the fight, and that dont expire at the end of your turn; the thing is, the waves are used when they reach 3, and the morale just stays there, everything's doing fine

Narja have an upgrade that says "7 voracity" this makes you think that you get 7 voracity every turn ?