Potentials and Manifest Ego that ironically reduce a character's potential [6]
So, very early on, I learned that, in the late game, if I would like to be able to thin a deck, I need to use characters that do not have their potentials unlocked, because the first node severely limits a character's ability to remove all or most of their cards. In particular, a few characters like Rei or Nia have manifest ego effects that make them better for this role even with no cards in their deck. You could take any third character, draw nothing but their cards every turn, and still enjoy a 40% damage boost from Rei E6 and Nia's E2/E6. The problem, however, is that you cannot unlock those potentials on these characters or this becomes considerably more difficult to achieve, and once you do unlock potentials, there is no going back. It becomes dramatically more difficult to improve a 0-cost deck (e.g. with equipment) when it costs an extra 70 points of save data or demands a specific event from a specific chaos. After learning this info, I decided to start over with a new account, and I am now Protos level 53 with only 1 out of the 6 characters I regularly use having potentials unlocked. I've decided I want a few different options for thin decks, but since they are a bit difficult to make, the potential system is simply locked off for most of my characters.
A similar problem exists in the manifest ego system, where some manifest ego changes are not straight upgrades. A few characters that come to mind are Mika and Orlea's E1. (add Initiation to Deluge and add Retain to Will of Light) While the later manifest egos can make it worth unlocking these, if you only have one Mika or Orlea dupe I'd caution you to avoid unlocking her manifest ego because you can end up in situations where you delay Deluge or clog your hand with Will of Light. Take Tressa, as an example, and her Shadow Reload card. One of its epips turn it into a 1-cost upgrade that generates shadow daggers when you are healed, and it is a very strong option. If you add Mika to her team, and have three Shadow Reload cards, all with initiation, adding Deluge to your hand only ensures that you cannot play it unless you cycle your entire deck on turn 2, possibly twice depending on your luck, and it also reduces your odds of drawing into cards like Confiscation>Forbidden: Hunger or Source of Water that would otherwise help your turn 1 setup. Orlea's case is even worse. Consider her within the Tressa/Cassius comp. With sturdie and shadow reload, you will generate a shadow dagger at the end of every turn. With four shadow reloads, you are unable to spare any space for more retain cards without reducing your draw power next turn. With three, you have room for growing creature to apply weaken or vulnerable stacks. Adding retain to Orlea's clunkiest and most expensive card is frankly just bad. While it is hand-efficient, (two heals for one 2-cost card) Growth Acceleration does it better (three heals for one 0/1-cost card) and you'd get more value out of other cards. It's laughably bad as a Manifest Ego, compared to the objective improvements other characters get.
It is baffling to me that these systems do not let you toggle them on and off when they, as permanent upgrades, feel so poorly designed. They do not fit the role they have been put into, and it worries me that the devs haven't brought this issue up when it feels like a huge, glaring problem to me.
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@Ryik @Ryik
This is Gllty
Um actually deck thinning and specific builds are much easier than most would think.... rather than playing a full round just reach the first boss or the copy card node of the second map by doing so and given how some epiphanies can randomly choose not to trigger the entire way it is possible to build really strange decks albeit more rng reliant now due to the lack of Lab 0 for rerolling runs.
I have Mika at max ME I find the 2 wave with deluge pointless with my 2AP LW setup but a Draw LW setup would likely need the extra AP turn 1 I've also started trimming down most of my support decks and running double DPS rather than conforming to the norm, I'd probably convert Teresa to 0 card when the nerf hits.
I did use the phrase "downgrade in this instance", rather than a downgrade in general, and yeah, I think it's bad game design to implement a permanent upgrade you can't remove that isn't 100% beneficial, because it leads to situations like mine and others where you are incentivized to intentionally leave a character un-upgraded. You've completely ignored half the original post talking about how this problem likewise applies to manifest ego and I don't get why you're so mad about a difficulty complaint I didn't even make.
Like, this is more a problem for people other than me, because I've taken steps to avoid it the issue, and you keep dismissing 0 card decks as if that's the only problem with the first potential node.
Because I don't have potentials unlocked on Rei, I can much more easily make save data like this:
And I think it's stupid that this becomes so much more difficult if you unlock her potentials. Literally, unlocked potentials = less potential sometimes.
i see, so, for you, would be a downgrade and a bad game design to be unable or have some hardship to make a deck thats not even a deck... alr... and yeah, theres not a single reason to read "all the argument" when theres not even one
@Gllty
I mean, you look pretty foolish when you openly admit you won't read the argument and and then make incorrect assumptions.
It doesn't really matter if you don't like the existence of thin decks. They exist. Zero card decks are frankly pretty niche (compared to thin decks with upgrades/draw power) but I certainly don't like being locked out of the option to make them, which in turn locks me out of the potential system for any character I want to make them on.
It really isn't about difficulty, because if I had the zero card decks, that wouldn't solve the problem. In my post I've outlined that I've taken steps to avoid this problem, so I have an easier time building them, but it doesn't change that if I want to fiend for a perfect thin or 0-card deck with tentacles of chaos or whatever, this potential node is actively detrimental, and that's just bad game design. The potentials system downgrades your character in this instance, and the same is true for some manifest egos.
i wont even read everythings, its already clear you're only whining abt the dificulty/way to build 0-card decks, wich in my opinion isnt even a strategy, like, you wanna make a deck thats not even a deck ? hell nah, characters like Rei have the ability to build all-upgrade decks, and Nia is better with cards too;
"having an all upgrade isnt the same as a 0-card ?" nope, youre still interacting with the character and you need to go through your deck at least once + make some decisions in when to use each upgrade and etc;
good luck building your 0-cards 😒😒